Wednesday, November 4, 2009

Kadesh<>Shur

Avimelech says to G-d, "Even if it is righteous, would you slay it? Perhaps this is your practice, to destroy the peoples for no reason. So did you do to the generation of the flood and to the generation of the disunion. I say too that you slew them for nothing, just as you say that you will slay me."

What the heck was the dude thinking, trying to shtech G-d? Like, "Oh, I'm going to win a logical argument with G-d, now he's not gonna do anything to me." Hello, this is G-d we're talking about, he invented logic! And even if he somehow loses, he's still gonna kill you. Will that make you feel better about how things went, that before you died you proved your point? Yasher Koach.

51 comments:

Crawling Axe said...

How’s davening different from arguing with G-d?

The Real Shliach said...

Do we go around capturing and violating women and then say, "In the perfection of my heart and with the cleanliness of my palms have I done this"?

Crawling Axe said...

Some don’t.

The Real Shliach said...

I shudder to contemplate...

Crawling Axe said...

Don’t. Zog lechayim un gei shlufen.

Mushkie said...

CA: Essen est zich, shlofen shloft zich...

Good point. Altie would (will) diagnose him as being in denial. Which he was. (Nile)

Crawling Axe said...

Mushkie, without shlofen un essen, can one do davenen?

Mushkie said...

Nein. I get tired of saying 'good point' and of agreeing with people.

Crawling Axe said...

My point is: we daven to Eibeshter and ask Him for more, and tell Him we deserve better. What makes you think you can do that? OK, so you don’t say outright that Hashem is not just (in fact, the opposite), but isn’t the mere fact of asking for more or something different implies that?

Mushkie said...

And He hasn't put us in this position where we need more to get us to daven?

Crawling Axe said...

What He did and why He did is His business. My question is: what gives us right to ask for more?

Mushkie said...

I was trying to say: perhaps He put us where we need to ask for more so that we will ask for more...do you get what I'm saying? Our davening for more makes us deserving.

Crawling Axe said...

How?

Mushkie said...

In honor of Chof Cheshvan i will tell a story which might answer your question and then I have to go eat supper (it's 6.16 by me): A yid came to the Rebbe Rashab and asked him for a brocha. The Rashab answered that he wasn't able to help him. The Yid left the rebbe's room, crying bitterly, and davened to Hashem to help him. To make a long story short, after he davened and cried, he was now deserving, and everything turned out fine. Farshteist?

Crawling Axe said...

What did davening and crying accomplish? He did teshuva. But if we just say the words, what good is that?

Crawling Axe said...

And also, I guess, you’re avoiding my question. Yes, Eibeshter put us in this position. Yes, if we ask more, we become deserving. But while we are asking, aren’t we still a bunch of chutzpidnyaks?

Mushkie said...

No, caus He put us there, wants us to be chutzpanyaks. I need sleep.

Zvi said...

Thats the classic Jewish response. I'd rather shtech the other guy out so at least I can die with a smile on my face.

I can bet that in every pogrom that happened some Jew was always standing on a rooftop shouting something like, "oh yeah? well your yoshke was our worst, and he is your best!"

Anonymous said...

avimelech wasnt jewish

e said...

abraham did it too with sodom.

e said...

the real reason why Avimelech argued with God is that the authors of the Bible had primitive ideas about God.

Crawling Axe said...

G-d had primitive ideas about Himself? I guess it’s true... “where you find His greatness, you also find His humility.”

e said...

lol. And I wrote "authors" lashon rabim because "elokim" is mislabesh in teva in different ways.

The Real Shliach said...

Anon: And yet G-d still had a friendly chat with him.

e: Abraham wasn't trying to save his own life, only some (admittedly excellent) real estate.

e said...

regardless what he was arguing for, he did argue with god.

e said...

and he wanted to save the people, not the land. read the bible, young man.

The Real Shliach said...

Yes, he was arguing. I have no problem with arguing. I just think it's funny that he made himself so righteous. And Abraham had no personal affinity for the people, only the land (I know it says something about this somewhere, but the memory is so vague...)

Modeh B'Miktsas said...

Mushkie: saying "god put us in sticky spots so we will pray" is really saying "god is a mamzer who twists peoples' arms to hear them scream.

e: At least you don't have the chutzpa to use the capital.

Nemo said...

Anybody know if any of these Wall Street Jews arrested today were frummies?

e said...

Goebells was right!

The Real Shliach said...

e: Are you going to act on that statement?

Dovid said...

Ya it does sound idiotic coming from avimelech, but when Moshe Rabbeinu (lehavdi?) argued logic with Hashem by the cheyt ha'eygel ("then the goyim will say you killed them in the desert because you can't defeat the 31 king of cenaan") he suceeded and he looked good doing it.

Cheerio said...

hmmm....

Modeh B'Miktsas said...

Only goyim are allowed to be stupid. When a Jew says something we say it goes above our head.

e said...

What's the meaning of the "<>"?

The Real Shliach said...

Genesis 20, 1:

"Abraham journeyed from there to the region of the south and settled between Kadesh and Shur, and he sojourned in Gerar."

e said...

Ok, and the symbols mean...

The Real Shliach said...

between

Crawling Axe said...

The symbol you’re looking for is |…|

Crawling Axe said...

Or (a, b).

The Real Shliach said...

Now I know.

Crawling Axe said...

Knowledge is responsibility. Put it to good use.

The Real Shliach said...

Yes sensai (bows head)

Modeh B'Miktsas said...

IOW change the symbol.

The Real Shliach said...

http://acronyms.thefreedictionary.com/IOW ?

Crawling Axe said...

I would go with either Isle of Wight or Intelligence Office on Water.

I could also go with Idiots on Wheels or Innovators of Wrestling, but MBM is too nice and frum for that.

The Real Shliach said...

"nice and frum"

I love when people make assumptions... not that I'm saying anything of course...

e said...

or perhaps kadesh < Abraham < shur.

Modeh B'Miktsas said...

IOW -- in other words.

TRS: because having met me you know that I am neither nice nor frum?

The Real Shliach said...

Something like that.

Modeh B'Miktsas said...

shkoyach