Tuesday, December 22, 2009

Maybe the computer tells them

I've just returned from my third wedding in two nights, and I'd love to write all about them, but something very important has come up that must be addressed. I was talking to a bochur tonight at one of the weddings, and we were having quite the conversation, but then he had to go. Why? I wondered the same thing. Was it because I was boring him? Perhaps he had an urgent appointment with his hairdresser? Or maybe his phone needed to be sanitized?

Turns out it was none of the above. Turns out he had to attend a shiur, entitled, "How will I know when I've met my bashert?" After snorting my ginger ale up my nose two or three times I inquired if he was serious. He was. I thought this a bit ridiculous. I mean, seriously, what are you expecting? Will there be angels singing verses from Handel as cherubs place wreaths of garlic over you and your beloved's heads? And that's just the first date!

80 comments:

e said...

Listen, not everyone has romantic love stories like you. Some people need to make thought-out intellectual decisions.

The Real Shliach said...

And yet do you think I knew when I had found my bashert? Do you think I was sure of it from day one? Do you think I wasn't freaked out? Do you think I'm not still freaked out (sometimes)?

e said...

i don't think that. But i do think that your story was highly atypical and your doubt were very different from what a regular bochur would go through.

e said...

i.e. you weren't trying to judge someone's personality based on a couple of shidduch dates. (There's also a possibility that what I'm saying makes no sense.)

The Real Shliach said...

I know that you don't actually think that, I was using rhetoric to make a point. Still, I'm not sure that my doubts were too different from those of any other person when making (quite possibly) the biggest decision in their life.

The Real Shliach said...

Point 2: Right, so perhaps the doubts manifested in different ways, but they were essentially the same doubts.

e said...

Certain doubts you dealt with, others wouldn't need to deal with, b/c their dates were pre-screened to be compatible with regards to certain external criteria (like career aspirations). You needed to figure out if the external stuff was cool.

Is the Mrs. reading this?

Crawling Axe said...

Recently this has been my third favorite topic for ranting.

In my opinion the two most destructive concepts in modern Judaism are:

1. Division into FFB vs. BT categories.
2. The concept of beshert.

The first concept divides people into complacent Jews who follow blindly the circumstances of their birth ("I was born in a family where they watch TV, keep cholov Yisroel and rip toilet paper on Shabbos — and so I shall do for the rest of my life") on the one hand and fanatics who have to destroy everything about themselves prior to the moment they found the true religion on the other.

The second concept makes shidduch into a clothes/car fitting expedition. People look at potential future husbands and wives and expect thing to "click", to "feel right", etc., ignoring the fact that relationship on any level requires work and intelligence.

I think the obsession with HP is to blame. People ignore the fact that HP is actually G-d's business, not that of people. One can say "it's HP" b'dieved, after shidduch definitely worked out or definitely did not work out, but to sit and look for signs of HP without putting any effort or intelligent decision making yourself is ridiculous.

Crawling Axe said...

Of course, everyone knows all of the above is not the real issue. The real issue, or rather, question is: why would a phone need to be sanitized?

Crawling Axe said...

The again, the real answer may be: "After she's lived with you for thirty years and hasn't divorced you despite all the close calls."

C said...

I was at a Rabbi Friedman shiur where a girl asked, "How do you know he's your bashert?"

The Rabbi brilliantly answered, "If he's standing next to you under the chuppa, he's your bashert."

Sometimes we take too much credit for ourselves and forget that there is a G-d orchestrating it all. Stop taking yourself (and by you I mean Shaya Loewenstein)so seriously.

sarabonne said...

Wreaths of garlic?

N said...

I concur with CA and sarabonne - sanitised phone and garlic wreaths?

The Real Shliach said...

e: Setting aside conversation about doubts, and who has what when, are you suggesting that in fact there is a way to know?

I doubt it.

CA: 1: This is certainly an issue. If both these groups went to YOEC then they'd be well taken care of. I think one of the most important things I learned there was to have a sense of proportion.

2: HP comes in handy when you find yourself in an uncomfortable situation (for example, a first date) and you're wondering, what the heck is going on, should I really be here? Knowing that this is all part of the grand plan provides comfort and stability.

3: The Golgafrinchans asked the same exact question and they suffered horrendously because of it.

5: Oh, I wouldn't be so harsh. If I was a bochur learning in 770 (i.e. not doing too much) I'd take every oppurtunity to learn all there is about this subject, even if the point up for discussion was a bit ridiculous.

Sara: Yes?

N: Sheesh, didn't you people ever read THHGTTG?

Crawling Axe said...

I am only against waiting for some omens from Above and against "falling" into anything.

Perhaps someone has read h2g2 a little too much. I still recommend Dirk Gently.

e said...

now that you mention hhgttg, I remember what phone sanitizing is about. But where do wreaths of garlic fall in from?

The Real Shliach said...

CA: 100%

B: Impossible! Would you say that it's possible to read Ayin Beis too much?

C: I'll get around to it. Eventually.

e: It's an amalgamation of Roman history and fertility boosting nutrients.

Crawling Axe said...

Cute. But you missed one.

The Real Shliach said...

I missed one what?

Crawling Axe said...

One letter.

The Real Shliach said...

The "100%" was A.

Crawling Axe said...

Yes, but where is D?

The Real Shliach said...

What D? I responded to your three points, and then I dealt with Eliezer.

Crawling Axe said...

nm

e said...

confidentiality violation alert!!

Crawling Axe said...

And responding to B, "I have only gone through the ma'amor mentally 30 times, and you're saying you're finished with it?"

The Real Shliach said...

CA: nm?

e: My apologies.

CA: er, no?

Crawling Axe said...

"Never mind".

You know that story?

The Real Shliach said...

Vaguely. Mind to remind?

Crawling Axe said...

Somebody came to visit a sick son of one Reb Chatcheh (sp?) and was learning with it. The father came in and saw they were learning Samech Hei. He asked: "Where are you holding?" They answered: "We finished the first ma'amor, and we've started on the second one." So, the father answered, surprised: "I've gone through the ma'amor mentally 30 times and am not done with it yet, and you have already moved on?"

e said...

would the be chatche feigin?

Crawling Axe said...

Yeah, yeah.

The Real Shliach said...

Nice-exactly my point for THHGTTG.

e said...

he's my mother's father's mother's cousin. Chatcheh's wife was a relative of my father's father somehow.

The Real Shliach said...

Nu, how many times have you gone over the maamar mentally?

Crawling Axe said...

I personally cannot say I am done with the first ma'amor of Samech Hei.

The Real Shliach said...

At least I remember learning it once...

Crawling Axe said...

e, was he a Yoel Kahn of that generation? I heard something like "all chassidus was transmitted through him".

Crawling Axe said...

TRS, and?..

The Real Shliach said...

I'm not finished.

e said...

he was the frierdiker rebbe's secretary and was killed by the Nazis. I don't think haskalah was his claim to fame.

Crawling Axe said...

Are you sure? The exact phrase I heard was "The evolution of haskala of Chassidus Chabad was through Reb Chatche".

e said...

then I'm wrong.

The Real Shliach said...

No! Impossible! I've lost all faith! AAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!

Modeh B'Miktsas said...

So, I could talk about any of the important issues raised here such as over-reliance on old bearded guys in shidduchim, misapplication of hashgacha protis, the 'shidduch crisis,' how do you really know, chassidus, teenage stupidity, etc. Instead I'll get to the real point of the post:

GINGER ALE??? UP YOUR NOSE??!!

The Real Shliach said...

Yes, it was painful.

Crawling Axe said...

MBM, would you rather rely on old beardless guys?

The Real Shliach said...

A hit, a hit, a palpable hit!

Menashe said...

I second not taking Shaya seriously. He doesn't even take himself seriously! And yes, you can tell him I commented about him again so he can mention it every time I meander into 770 for the next 3 months.

Shaya said...

@Marty:
I hope you are having fun, because I sure am. If you're trying to make it onto my hit list, you're going to need to work harder than this!

The Real Shliach said...

Menashe: who does take themselves seriously?

Shaya: welcome, welcome, so glad you could join us. How was the shiur?

Menashe said...

@HRHC R' Lowenstein: Who's Marty?

Modeh B'Miktsas said...

ca: no
trs: not a hit.
Menashe: that better not have been a serious question.

The Real Shliach said...

Menashe: I'll give you three guesses...

Modeh: you can't deny it...

re: Menashe's Q: why, what's wrong with asking questions?

Menashe said...

I have no clue who Marty is.

Menashe said...

Ahaha, I just made the connection. Shaya makes up weird names for people. In a couple weeks is Jack's wedding in OT.

The Real Shliach said...

Excellent work. Who is Jack?

Menashe said...

Avremi L.

The Real Shliach said...

Didn't he just get engaged extremely recently?

Menashe said...

He's the chasidish type. There are some brave ones left.

The Real Shliach said...

What does bravery have to do with chassidishkeit, and what do either have to do with extremely short engagements?

Crawling Axe said...

Isn't a short engagement both an extremely brave and an extremely chassidish idea?

Menashe said...

CA's got it.

The Real Shliach said...

Eh, nothing to do. You think my wife and I wanted to he engaged for so long before getting married? In fact, one of the most chassidish bochurim I ever met got engaged a few days before me, and got married a few days before me, to the very chassidish daughter of one of the most chassidish mashpiim in all of Israel. Obviously, having a six month plus engagement is too long, but less than that? It usually has nothing to do with the chassidishkeit of the groom and bride, and everything to do with the families, locations, money, etc.

Crawling Axe said...

Well, circumstances limit one. For instance, if a snag has to work, he will work, but ideally he will just sit at home and be a mosquito. Likewise with long engagements.

The Real Shliach said...

Please please please provide me with a link to a YouTube video or article of a snag being a mosquito!

Crawling Axe said...

Hmm. Maybe fakewood has one.

Modeh B'Miktsas said...

Depends on the snag. Real snags will work. Fake three-generations late hungarian pseudolitvaks sit at home and be mosquitos.

Menashe said...

Alot of good all that chasidus did if you still can't manage to muster up a bit of ahavas yisroel for another jew.

AY applies to frum jews as well.

Crawling Axe said...

Menashe, to whom is your comment addressed?

e said...

menashe, you obviously didn't go the real chassidisheh yeshivos. Late at night, after much booze, the mashpi'im reveal the secret truth: it's a mitzvah to hate snags and the rebbe is god.

Maybe you went to the right yeshivas but you left the farbrengens too early.

Crawling Axe said...

e, senatores boni viri; senatus mala bestia.

e said...

v'hanimshal...

Crawling Axe said...

I think vegetarianism is stupid, but I am nice to my specific vegetarian friends.

e said...

aha. that's the problem. most lubavs don't have any snag friends.

Crawling Axe said...

You think a hypothetical Lubavitcher would show personal hatred to a hypothetical snag?

I would relate something I heard in a farbrengen recently about Shanghai, but it's too long and a bit cliche.

e said...

depends how hypothetical the lubavitcher is. As I said, the real snag hatred only comes out under certain circumstances. so under which circumstances is this hypothetical lubav existing?

Modeh B'Miktsas said...

The hypothetical lubav exists in a perfect world where he doesn't have to talk to any snags. Therefore he can mock them behind their backs to his hearts content.

Menashe said...

My comment was directed to CA and Modeh.

Crawling Axe said...

1. I don't believe we've drunk bruderschaft.
2. What I responded to e.