Monday, April 27, 2009

Kol haposel

You all ready for some shulchan oruch I learned today? Excellent. This is in no way intended to replace a thoroughly competent orthodox rabbinical figure, and anyone who paskens from here deserved whatever happens to them.

The mechaber writes, in siman 110 Halacha 7, concerning any mixture of kosher food and food that is not able to be nullified, for example a live animal, an insect, a piece of meat worthy of being served for a guest, or a forbidden item that will in the future be permitted. If one of these non-Kosher foods is mixed up (not cooked) with a similar kosher food then the entire mixture is forbidden because it's impossible to know what is kosher and what is not kosher. If, however, one of the pieces of the mixture is lost forever, for example it's eaten by someone accidentally, then the remainder may be eaten, provided that double the amount of original forbidden food is consumed each time consumption occurs.

For example, if someone has ten kosher steaks and a tenth non-kosher steak gets mixed up among them, and then one of the steaks is accidentally eaten, then a person could eat two steaks at a time, no problem. Why two? Because then there's always at least biblical permission to eat the one (potential) non-Kosher steak. If there's only one then at some point you'll definitely be eating treif, and of course it's forbidden to eat treif. The same reasoning would apply if three treif pieces originally fell into the pot; you'd have to eat six pieces every time, in order to make certain of the biblically-mandated majority kosher meat.

The Taz (ches) asks why the Mechaber allows the remainder of the previously-forbidden mixture to be eaten. It's because we consider the missing piece to have been the forbidden piece. The question then arises, why didn't the rabbis forbid this mixture, because we should be scared that someone will then intentionally eat one piece in order to permit the remaining pieces.

The reason the rabbis didn't forbid this is because what this person would in effect be doing is eating a piece of treif meat (remember, that's what we consider the missing piece to be) in order to make the rest of the meat kosher. But if he cares about the rest of the meat being kosher, then he's not going to eat the treif! And if he doesn't care, then he's going to eat it anyway! So either way, you're fine.

The Taz says, this can't be right. Of course no Torah-observing Jew is going to eat treif, but who's to say he won't get rid of it somehow else, like by giving it to a non-Jew or dog, or by throwing it into the sea? Therefore the Taz says that we do in fact prohibit the entire mixture, even if a piece is accidentally lost.

37 comments:

le7 said...

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

The Real Shliach said...

i.e. ?

le7 said...

BH shelo asani ish?

The Real Shliach said...

why? the laws still apply to you.

le7 said...

Yeah, but I'm not expected to learn this stuff, I can just ask a rabbi.

The Real Shliach said...

True. But still, now that you do know it, life is so much better!

le7 said...

I guess so. Steak sounds good.

The Real Shliach said...

Right now I'd prefer raspberry sorbet.

le7 said...

And coconut? And mint chocolate chip ice cream?

The Real Shliach said...

This is getting scary. My two favorite sorbets (it's a tie) are raspberry and coconut, with mango close behind. And my favorite ice cream is chocolate chip mint!

le7 said...

Hmmmmmm... but do you like steak? And barbequed chicken?

The Real Shliach said...

Like? How about "adore"?

le7 said...

Excellent. And A1 steak sauce of course? How about machine made matzah with cream cheese?

The Real Shliach said...

Dang! We had such a good run there. A1=Yum, but cream cheese with anything doesn't do anything for me. Neither does machine matza, for that matter, though at least I'll eat it.

le7 said...

Um, well how about cheesecake with strawberries? And gingersnap cookies?

The Real Shliach said...

Am I not known for my ginger-bread men baking prowess?

And cheesecake plus anything is divine.

le7 said...

Excellent. How are thick chilli? And spicy salsa?

The Real Shliach said...

Is not chili the nectar of the gods? And spicy salsa its royal accompaniment?

le7 said...

Indeed.

Let's see what else.

Spaghetti and meat sauce?

Bean burritos?

The Real Shliach said...

if spaghetti and meatballs weren't death to penguin attire, I'd eat them daily. My excuse for bean burritos? Lack of availability? Of course, absence does make the heart grow fonder.

le7 said...

Indeed, but I bet you won't love, even though I do, green cheesy enchiladas. Oh and pumpkin empanadas.

The Real Shliach said...

I've never had either, so how would I know?

le7 said...

Well enchiladas are super cheesy.

e said...

trs & Le7: you are so cute. vd"l!!!!

re the post: yep, it annoys me how the later rabbis always come up with some way to assur what the previous rabbis permitted. Irksome, isn't it?

The Real Shliach said...

le7: yeah, probably not my style. The only thing I like super cheesy is pizza.

e: ain't we?

And yeah, you always get excited with some new-found heter, and then boom! Someone finds a way to invalidate it.

sarabonne said...

Steak sounds VERY good. I'm done with chicken...

Modeh B'Miktsas said...

zeyer intresahnt. DANGIT. Now I have to look all this up and argue with you.
BTW while I've got you on the subject of shulchan aruch, why does the kehos edition of shulchan aruch harav just say "shulchan aruch" on the cover? This gets confusing.

The Real Shliach said...

Sara: good thing you live in new York, kosher steak capital of the universe.

Modeh: who is it confusing exactly? I've never heard of anyone getting them mixed up.

Nemo said...

Once, when I was a bochur, I just arrived in Bnei Brak for yeshiva needed to buy a Shulchan Oruch Harav. I walked for miles across the Ir Hatoyrah V'Hachasidus in search of a sefarim store, but surprisingly had little success. When I reached Rechov Harav Shach, I asked around and got directed to a place around the corner. I searched high and low in the store, but had no luck. Finally, I decided to ask the store's proprietor where I can find a Shulchan Oruch Harav and he directs me to the Oiz Vehadar print of the book. I then asked if he perhaps has the Kehos print of the Shulchan Oruch Harav. He responds to me, "Lo, Kehos zeh Rav acher."

The Real Shliach said...

Very cute.

You were on hamachalif shor bachamor street?

Modeh B'Miktsas said...

It confused five different people I was trying to learn with on five separate occasions in one year. THen again one of them was a lubavitcher and he might have been trying to hint at something.

re hamachlif. Very cute. Now how would you take it if I told the death and taxes joke?

The Real Shliach said...

I don't get it-how were they confused? They took the wrong Sefer off the shelf?

Hilarious. :p

Nemo said...

Which?

The Real Shliach said...

Basically, the road in front of the ponevezsh yeshiva used to be Herzl street, but when shach croaked they changed it to shach street. Hence, hamachalif shor bachamor.

Nemo said...

I meant what's the death and taxes joke.

Modeh B'Miktsas said...

TRS:believe it or not it actually happens.

Nemo: Benjamin Franklin once said that the only truly certain things in life are death and taxes. The leitzoney hadoir like to say that it isn't true. In boro park they abolished taxes and vda"l

The Real Shliach said...

Modeh: strange ways.