Monday, September 8, 2008

Milk and Meat, among other things sweet

Today I was learning some Chullin when I came across what may very well be the next Chumra of the week. You see, there was some Amora who commented that if his father was like wine, he was like vinegar. His father would wait twenty four hours between eating milk and meat, while the son only waited six. This got me thinking, "Why don't we do this?" I mean, there have been a million other crazy stringencies out there, why not one with an actual basis in the Talmud? As a side note, it's pretty funny that we're as strict as we are when it comes to Kashrus. If someone was man (stupid) enough to rule straight from the Gemara, he could have a much easier life than the one we are currently enjoying.
Anyway, the only problem I came up with my brilliant plan for this new "Chumra of the week" is trying to figure out how it would be possible to make money off it. After all, what's the point of religious extremism if there's no one to siphon cash out of the fanatics' pockets? I thought of several ideas, and I hope that my loyal readership will chip in some more.

1. Is everyone you know keeping Chalav Yisrael this Aseres Yemei Teshuva? One up them, and be the envy of all your Chaveirim, with the new 24 hour Milk+Meat combo wait pack! For more info, please dial 1-426-278-2537.

2. Do you not floss? Does your wife hate you for this? Then you need a religious excuse! Start keeping the new 24 hour Meat+Milk combo wait today! Just send a SASE to

IMAM ORON
C/O PT Barnum
617 6th St. Lakewood, NJ, 08701

3. Tired of trying to figure out if you can eat pizza on Motzei Shabbos? Just buy into our new 24 hour Meat+Milk combo wait! Scared you won't be able to pass the test? Buy our new 24 Cholent-one spoonful and we guarantee you won't be eating for 24 hours!

And now it's your turn folks...

97 comments:

e said...

In Nitei Gavriel, he writes that a certain holy Jew would not eat milchigs and fleishigs on the same day. What did he do on Shavuot? He would dip a non-ben yomo milchig spoon into a cup of hot water and drink the water.

I thought this holy Jew was a complete NRF. I never knew that the gemara advocates such chumras. Where is this gemara?

Nemo said...

Wow, personally, I would have eaten hot (pareve-prepared) fish on a Milchig plate, but this guy takes it to the extreme.

The Real Shliach said...

That would be in Chullin, Daf 105.

Anonymous said...

I took that picture!
I am one of the real fake shliach's female admirers!

Cheerio said...

shouldn't it be "the fake real shliach"?
and of course you are, for he has so many...

The non-reformed TP said...

TRS, what would Chaim Shapiro say if he saw what's going on here?

e said...

Nemo, my guess is that he wanted the milchigs to be really balu'a, but wanted it to be lifgam. For the fish to be balu'a from milchigs, the plate would need to be heated. (Remember, tatoh govar).

Or maybe, he was just so NRF that he couldn't trust his wife to handle milchig kelim Yom Tov, with all the fleishigs about ,and h didn't know how to cook.

The Real Shliach said...

Thank you Cheerio.
As for you, TP...ask him!

The Real Shliach said...

On second thought, don't.

The non-reformed TP said...

Aha!

S.Z.B. said...

His father would wait twenty four hours between eating milk and meat, while the son only waited six.

Dude, where'd you get the six our thing from.

[Now, don't try and shooting the ROSH, RAMBAM, HAGAHOS ASHIRI, RIF, RAN, RASHBA and MORDECHAI (in the name of the RA'AVYAH), BI'UR HA'GRA and LECHEM MISHNEH because i know you didn't learn those...

You maybe saw Tosfos...and you know what he says]

The Real Shliach said...

Ever heard of Artscroll?

Anonymous said...

Oh, the blasphemy!

S.Z.B. said...

My, point is that you draw unnecessary conclusions. As does Artscroll.

For Shame.

The Real Shliach said...

Unnecessary? Why?

And Almighty Editor, I think you have a job to do here with SZB.

The almighty E said...

I'm busy saving the world. And my copy of Chullin is floating around 770. Let the dude who is freaking learning this stuff in Yeshiva answer the question.

Cheerio said...

i feel very out of place in this conversation.

The almighty E said...

B/c my chullin is lost, I tried looking the gemara up on e-daf.com. I couldn't even find the right part of the page. And now you want me to take on ArtScroll? Aren't your parents paying tuition so that you can learn something? And don't you have seder in around seven hours?

The tzniut police said...

Cheerio, that's because this is MAN territory. Now go tuck your dollies to sleep and call your friend and ask her to play house with you. AND KEEP YOUR NOSE WHERE IT BELONGS--IN THE KITCHEN (OR MAYBE THE LAUNDRY ROOM)

Cheerio said...

FINE! i will! (stalks off in a huff, as befits a true female).

The Real Shliach said...

No, my parents are paying no tuition for me to sit and learn in MN.
Seder is in over eight hours.
Cheerio: I'm supposed to believe that?

Mottel said...

"Is everyone you know keeping Chalav Yisrael this Aseres Yemei Teshuva?" I believe you mean Pas Yisroel (as opposed to eating Pas Palter the rest of the year)-as mentioned in Shu"a

S.Z.B. said...

Not to mention the irony in your defaulting to the rigorously constraining interpretation [when there are a number of both broader and more literal explanations] in the very post were you wish to satirically illustrate the intellectually infantile tendency to fundamental stringency.

The Real Shliach said...

Mottel: I know a lot of people who only keep Chalav Yisrael in the 10 days. Also, it has more humorous value when you stack it up with meat.

SZB: Which would you prefer? The Dutch 1 hour, the German 3 hour, or the "into the 6th" hour?

S.Z.B. said...

I'd be fine if you just took the statement in the Gemara at face value, especially when backed up by scholars as Tosfos and such. I.e. his father would wait 24 hours while he would just wait until his next meal started.

Just to stick my nose where yours belongs, but these 'a lot of people' do so based in what exactly?

The Real Shliach said...

However you want to take it, take it. Thing is, people who are into Chumros keep the six hour rule, and this is meant for them.

What's it based on? Ich vais nisht. I can't be held responsible for other people's behavior. Heck, I can barely be held responsible for my own!

S.Z.B. said...

That's not a cop out-at all.


Carry on valiant warrior!

The Real Shliach said...

Who said it was? I certainly didn't.

And thank you, I shall.

Cheerio said...

what, that i stalked off in a huff (metaphorically speaking), or that i'm a true female?

The Real Shliach said...

Both, I imagine.

Cheerio said...

WHAT?!?!!

The Real Shliach said...

Do I have to spell out everything?

Cheerio said...

yes, please. that way, i can quote you before i kill you.

The Real Shliach said...

I know you're looking for a job, but perhaps a little charm school would come in handy?

e said...

Cheerio, You're getting a little fierce.

Cheerio said...

i can be charming when i want to be!

Cheerio said...

is that a bad thing, e? my femininity was challenged! if i wasn't a girl, what would tp and all his gang have to say on this blog?

The non-reformed TP said...

We would euphoriate over the blog's eidelkeit.

the muslim tp said...

Women should stay submissively at home. Fierce women should be shot.

the muslimer-than-thou TP said...

Shot?? Infidel! Fierce women should be publicly beheaded, preferably on live TV before a baseball game.

Cheerio said...

baseball?1?! for shame, mtttp! a true believer would never countenance playing that infidel game! behead the women before a rousing game of football (aka soccer), that is the way to go.

The Real Shliach said...

Shows how much you people know. The only acceptable game for beheadings is Horse Polo.

The Real Shliach said...

BTW, it's nice to have so many Muslims here. They really add some spice to the mix. When are the Bahai coming?

Cheerio said...

i might be able to arrange that. it'd take a bit of time, though.

The Real Shliach said...

What is this, suicide? You know that such action is forbidden by Muhammad. Women must go down crying, not happily!

S.Z.B. said...

Get a room. All of you.

The Real Shliach said...

What are you saying now?

Baha'i said...

I have arrived. Now, if only I could get y'all to understand that Baha'ulla is the manifestation of God.

Cheerio said...

just being contrary - as WOMEN are wont to do. trying to display my feminine characteristics, since you appeared to have some doubt.
as for YOU, szb; recommending some pretty drastic actions, aren't ya? maybe tp has a new target...

The Real Shliach said...

Forget the religious mumbo-jumbo. All we want to know is, what's the accepted punishment for people like cheerio?

THE GOOD OLD tp said...

SZB, don't y'know that yichud is ossur? GET A ROOM? MAYBE YOU NEED TO GET A GOSHDARNED SHULCHAN ARUCH. BTW, CAN ANYONE TELL ME HOW TO MAKE ITALICS AND BOLD AND THIS SYSTEM?

Cheerio said...

go-ftp - at this point, i think there's enough of us involved in this conversation that it wouldn't actually be yichud.

THE GOOD OLD tp said...

Oh yeah? A bunch of men with one woman=yichud (i think)

The Real Shliach said...

You know, I really think you should check up on your Halacha here. As far as I can tell, it's okay for two Jewish men to be alone with a Jewish woman, though I'm not entirely clear on this point. Of course, with all these Muslims and Bahai people involved, it might be a different case altogether.

S.Z.B. said...

TP, your ignorance is matched only by your lame stupidity.

As for you other question, you can use some HTML tags, such as , ,

Ten points if you can tel me where i got that from.

e said...

last night we decided it's ossur.

The Real Shliach said...

Them's fighting words SZB!

And e, last night was last night. Today is a brand new day, with brand new Halachos to make up! After all, that was the whole point of this post.

Cheerio said...

we did?

Baha'i said...

In our religion, women are equal to men.

The Real Shliach said...

How boring.

The Real Shliach said...

No wonder the Muslims hate you guys.

Baha'i said...

but we love the muslims. we love all religions.

Cheerio said...

yeah, inexplicable misogyny and chauvinism are so much more fun!

The Real Shliach said...

See, everyone hates people who love everyone. They're just, so, well, creepy.

e said...

can we move this google chat? much more conveninvt

S.Z.B. said...

Make as if Judaism [especially in it's Orthodox manifestation] isn't patriarchal and misogynistic.

Cheerio said...

e, have you been attacked by the typo virus as well??

e said...

We're moving into chat mode, and that causes typos.

Tzniut police said...

Anonymous S.Z.B. said...

Make as if Judaism [especially in it's Orthodox manifestation] isn't patriarchal and misogynistic.

September 10, 2008 10:56 PM

It TOTALLY is.

Cheerio said...

who said it wasn't?

S.Z.B. said...

There were some not so discreet jabs at the Muslim and Bahai peoples.

Let he who without sin cast the first stone.

b (in chat mode) said...

WTF? everyone loves the Bahai. we don't do enought to really iss anyone off. and if we did, it would do stuff, it would like promoting world peace or world literacy or somethiung.

The Real Shliach said...

Bahai has always been persecuted, and deservedly so. Any group that loves so much must be hiding pedophilia or something like that. Suffice it to say that Judaism, with all its quaint medieval tendencies to kill, burn, rape, and rampage, is far superior.

Cheerio said...

gettin a little extreme there, dude.
judaism can get a little, as you put it, "medieval", but rape? no, we have a much more complicated system...

The Real Shliach said...

Go learn your Judaism, darling, and not the stuff they teach in Berkeley.

TP1 said...

Or the kefira Boteachism that seeps into your system via your roommate.

Mottel said...

-I'm with S.Z.B. on this one -get a room-

-THE GOOD OLD tp: Use HTMl as stated < i> < /i> (sans ths spaces after the <, and with the text between the two) for italics, < b> < /b> for < b> bold< /bold>

Cheerio said...

trs, WHY MUST YOU RUIN MY LIBERAL ILLUSIONS?? haven't you ever heard the phrase "ignorance is bliss"?

Cheerio said...

and i'm blaming my ignorance on my lubavitch education, not the berkeley one. in chabad, they don't teach girls all the scandalous stuff, only the guys! so if i don't know something, it's not cuz i'm from berkeley.

The Real Shliach said...

OK babes, I'll try to avoid it in future.
Haven't I told you already? You learn nothing in school, neither girl's nor boys. The important thing is to educate yourself. I recommend the Meam Loaz-that taught me a lot.

Nemo said...

I don
t think it's necessarily not taught, it just takes a little bit of independant thought to realize that some of the stuff they teach you would, under modern circumstances, be considered rape (Yifas To'ar), murder(amalek), pedophilia (Naarah Ha'Maorsha), etc ...

S.Z.B. said...

Not that it changes anything, but those things were, for the most part, socially acceptable if not standard procedure. As the times and mores progressed so did Judaism's stance on these issues.

Nemo said...

Who decides Judaism's stance? Would Judaism's stance on sacrifices change today?

S.Z.B. said...

Judaism's leaders and sages.

I don't see why but perhaps. The Rambam was of the opinion that God's decision to allow sacrifices in first place was a concession to human psychological limitations, and that prayer was a far more superior form of worship.

Cheerio said...

WHAT DID I SAY? have you forgotten my admonishments so quickly? dude=chick - NOT babe/s.
and nemo - the only thing they discuss with the girls is the first topic you listed, and usually it's only in terms of a sicha - which doesn't provide much in terms of technical details or halachos.

Nemo said...

This is basic Parshah shtuff. It's all right out of the book.

The Real Shliach said...

Yup, I think I have something to blog about tonight...

e said...

naarah meurasah is not pedophilia.

if you mess with a married adult, you get strangled, but if you mess with an innocent child, you get stoned.

Sounds like the "primitive" Torah is defending young girls.

e said...

thanks Mottel for HTML!

Nemo said...

E- my point was that it's a forced marriage (and forced sex, which, in case they didn't teach this in yeshiva, is part of marriage) arranged by an indigent father looking to ameliorate his poverty by selling of his young daughter, who need not even consent to the marriage. She legally is not of age to make her own decisions, and in all probability, really doesn't have the emotional and rational capability to understand what she's being put into.

Nemo said...

Please forgive the lack of clarity above. Forced sex is not part of marriage, or at least it shouldn't be.

Cheerio said...

what did you intend to say?

E said...

Nemo, you must have meant amah ivriah, not naarah meurasa.

The Real Shliach said...

Basically, Judaism rocks if you're a guy.

Nemo said...

You're right, my bad. You know, my Hebrew's gone to the gutters ever since I fried out and went to Uni.

Sadly said...

" You know, my Hebrew's gone to the gutters ever since I fried out and went to Uni."

You may be joking now. But it you won't be laughing at the end.

Nemo said...

Who said I was joking now?