Tuesday, February 17, 2009

Mishenichnas Adar marbeh headaches

You know how goyim people have this thing about x-mas creep? We Jews have it too. In my case it was the first guy (tiferes, of course) singing Vayehi bemei achashvarosh. Worse punishments have not been invented yet. As I pointed out to him, loudly, in the line while waiting for Chernobyl chicken, "It's a week until rosh chodesh Adar! You'll be sick of that song in three weeks! Please". Honestly, that has got to be the most annoying niggun of all time and space. You know why? Because at every single farbrengen and wedding and kabbalos shabbos and kiddush and whatever they'll sing it for at least twenty minutes. And it's not like it's an interesting song either. It's on the same level as didan notzach, which isn't a good thing. Boring, repetitive, with no merit other than being apropos to the time. You know why he was called achashverosh? Because he was a major headache. Which is exactly what you get after listening to this song. And as I say, after three weeks even the diehards in tiferes will be sick of it. People like me who have been around the block a couple of times? It'll take about two minutes.

Meanwhile, in other news, I was learning v'ata tetzaveh with Shaul Nemtzov tonight (we miss you moshe rudd) and came to the footnote where the Rebbe uses the famous "din v'cheshbon" concept to explain how when the FR said that Mordechai was the undisputed king of Jews (al derech HASC 15) he was paskening on himself, and by extension of course the Rebbe was paskening that on himself.
I explained to Shaul how the phrase "din v'cheshbon" makes no sense. Do you walk into a courtroom and the judge says, "Guilty! Now how about a trial?" Obviously not. The holy Baal Shem Tov explain that when you get up to heaven they'll seat you in a nice movie theater (the downtown ones that people who are stuck in the fifties are always talking about) and you'll get to watch someone's life story. At the end they'll ask you for your opinion. You'll comment that he seemed like a really great guy, and he should go straight through the pearly gates to the highest heavenly abodes. And then they'll tell you that, surprise surprise, this was your life story, and how you ruled on him is how the heavenly court rules on you.
I then said that what I was about to say was incredibly snaggy, but one lesson you could learn out from here was that you should train yourself to always judge other people favorably. Between you and me, tzaddikim we ain't; still, if you accustom yourself to being dan lekaf zechus (hello Ms. Whitman?) then you have a chance in heaven.
Why is this so snaggy? Because it is. The goal is not to ensure that we have a comfy place to drink nectar. The goal is to bring Jews closer to their father in heaven. Judging others well because it's convenient is sick.

128 comments:

le7 said...

Great. So I'll continue to look my snooty nose down on everyone else.

The Real Shliach said...

That followed from this post how?

le7 said...

I mean, I'll continue to judge everyone unfavorably.

The Real Shliach said...

R'u gedulim she'gedalti.

Cheerio said...

well, i've started my purim prep. i've got to do some research. anyone know of a really temporary blue hair dye?

The Real Shliach said...

Sara seems to be an expert in blue hair dye. Ask her.

le7 said...

Actually I'm the expert.

The only really impermanent thing is the spray in stuff.

Blue hair dye is a bit of a catch 22. It fades super quickly. Yet the dregs or it stick around for awhile...

The Real Shliach said...

Sounds like a chassidishe farbrengen.

le7 said...

Use that as a moshel at your next farby!

The Real Shliach said...

If I haven't drowned my sorrows in alcohol before I get a chance to talk.

Crawling Axe said...

Fur vos lernstu V’atah Tetzavei already? I always get nervous when it gets close to holidays. Especially Peisach. In fact, I always get nervous on Thursday.

Closer? To. Period.

le7 said...

I used to be like that Axel. I used the get nervous the last few hours before Shabbos.

The Real Shliach said...

CA: I don't make the Seder of yeshiva.
le7: happens.

le7 said...

Now I'm too relaxed. About time that is,

Crawling Axe said...

Well, one time I was nervous half an hour before Shabbos. I mean, who drives at the speed limit? Isn’t halacha at least 10 mph above?

le7 said...

I'm usually 15 over...

The Real Shliach said...

You won't be a full fledged Lubavitcher until you learn that speed limits are really only suggestions, and anyway, they don't apply on days ending with 'y'.

Crawling Axe said...

It’s like saying “You won’t be a full-fledge Lubavitcher until you appreciate the taste of vodka”. You’re forgetting where I am from. That’s not enough for me.

(Btw, no wonder the rest of the velt is scared of us.)

Crawling Axe said...

le7 — I thought you meant you’re usually 15 minutes over licht benchen.

Crawling Axe said...

Btw, who is X-mas Creep?

The Real Shliach said...

It's not a who, but a what.

Crawling Axe said...

Is it an animal? Or some mythical figure? (Splitting hairs, huh?)

sarabonne said...

I think he's referring to carols and those dreaded carolers. *shudder

Modeh B'Miktsas said...

Talk about early birds. Last year we got collectors a week before Purim kotton. I decided to let them earn their keep and farhered them for forty-five minutes (I overheard them saying rude things about how my father talks.) Luckily they were learning the mesechta I did the year before and I sounded like ah greyse chochom. Now why can't these people come early for seder?

chanie said...

It's not snaggy, it's an inyan to be dan l'chaf z'chut. And if it helps that at the end you're judging yourself, so be it.

The Real Shliach said...

Sara et all: I'm referring to stores putting up their x-mas displays before Halloween.
Modeh: nice.
Chanie: it's snaggy to do something in order to get paradise. Come to think of it, isn't that what muslims do too? So now we have a gezeirah shavah-snags=muslims.

chanie said...

אסור לקטרג על ישראל.

"Snags" are your brothers, Muslims are your enemies.

And if gan eden helps you do something when your y"h is hard at work, so be it, and kol hakavod that you didn't do it for worse reasons.

The Real Shliach said...

Snags are my brothers? I shudder.

Yes. You're right. Mitoch shelo lishmah bah lishmah. Doesn't change the fact that it's snaggy.

chanie said...

Uh, yes, they are. Learn ch. 32 in Tanya.

Doesn't change the fact that it's stuck-up to hate snags.

Crawling Axe said...

Nope. Seeking Gan Eiden is a wrong reason. It’s a right reason if you’re a snag, since you don’t know better, but once you’ve learned Tanya, you shouldn’t hold by that level anymore.

On the other hand, not sinning to avoid Gehinnom is a proper reason and isn’t snaggish.

Crawling Axe said...

Well, maybe it is, but it’s the sort of snagkeit that’s acceptable even for chassidim.

fakewood inc. said...

i think not sinning for geheinom is snaggier. they need there creature comforts.

Crawling Axe said...

That’s the point. It’s not about the fear of losing creature comforts. It’s about the fear of punishment.

fakewood inc. said...

thats not how snags think they aren't worried about about punishment at all. they live on charity there whole lives thats a bigger busha than geheinom. im speaking of lakwood of course.

The Real Shliach said...

Chanie: just like I hate the yetzer hora inside my fellow Jew I hate the snagginess inside my fellow Jew.

Fakewood+CA: doing anything for your own comfort, or even for yourself, is snaggy.

Crawling Axe said...

TRS, Rebbe Rashab says “not complete evil”. Since snagginess is complete evil, worrying about Gehinnom cannot be it.

The Real Shliach said...

This is just a manifestation.

chanie said...

Snagginess is not complete evil, it's a different approach to avodat Hashem.

Crawling Axe said...

A completely evil approach.

chanie said...

No. Yours obviously lacks A"Y, though.

The Real Shliach said...

Snagginess is more like avodas hasatan.

Crawling Axe said...

Why? I love evil Jews too.

Crawling Axe said...

TRS — that’s what I am saying: since Rebbe Rashab advocates it as somewhat appropriate, it cannot be so snaggy. There is a whole mashal of father and splinter, thunder and Yitzchok-Yitchok (or lack of thereof).

The Real Shliach said...

Hmm. Well, I suppose it depends on who's doing it.

chanie said...

Just love them.

The Real Shliach said...

Love the sinner hate the sin.

chanie said...

Good. But snaggy is not a sin, it's a different hashkafa than yours.

Farbrengen said...

BS"D
I really liked this post, specifically the second half of it. And even more, the last two lines... although I'm not a fan of the term "snaggy".

Crawling Axe said...

Of course it's a sin.

fakewood inc. said...

snaggy=mussar=depressed. lack of ability to serve go-d with happines

chanie said...

Lav davka. Unless, of course, Chabad=partying=leitzanus=wild. lack of ability to serve hashem with yirah.

fakewood inc. said...

Wild with a purpose and a mission. Not just stam. We also have an awsome leader and guiding light.

Modeh B'Miktsas said...

WHy is it that a shliach can treat like a brother any antagonistic jerk with a pink mohawk who walks into his chabad house but when confronted with a jerk who wears a hat and jacket and wastes his time in fakewood instead of follywood the legendary lubavitch ahavas yisrael is gone?

fakewood inc. said...

because the guy in the pink mohawk is generally not antagonistic. they didnt steal our money in shanghai. they dont insult our rebbe on a regular basis and they dont call us apikorsim. a yea they should no better because they have a connection to torah. also
כמים הפנים לפנים כן לב האדם אל האדם

chanie said...

You're wrong, fakewood.

MBM- ditto, ditto, and ditto again.

The Real Shliach said...

Go CA and Fakewood!

Actually, Modeh, have you ever seen a shliach deal with a snag? I have, and I can tell you that they've never treated them with less than the utmost Ahavas Yisrael.

Farbrengen: Thanks.

fakewood inc. said...

Chanie you make such a compelling argument I must agree with you.

chanie said...

Thank you. Have you ever seen a Chabadnik and a "snag" argue? Have you ever heard how many Chabadnikim talk about snags behind their backs?

fakewood inc. said...

I live in lakewood I think I have on more than one occasion.

Crawling Axe said...

WHy is it that a shliach can treat like a brother any antagonistic jerk with a pink mohawk who walks into his chabad house but when confronted with a jerk who wears a hat and jacket and wastes his time in fakewood instead of follywood the legendary lubavitch ahavas yisrael is gone?

Talk about non-sequitur. Who said ahavas yisroel is gone? Should I quote Julius Caesar again? We love Jews for being Jews, we hate the barriers they created between themselves and their Father in Heaven — whether barriers of klipah or of kedusha.

But even if was true: because Baal Shem Tov would feel closer to the dude with mohawk than to the dude from fakewood.

The Real Shliach said...

Chanie: uh, have you ever seen snags talk about Lubavitchers behind their backs? I have. I was in snag school for a long time. I suffered. I survived.

Crawling Axe said...

Chabad=partying=leitzanus=wild. lack of ability to serve hashem with yirah.

Vos mir zeinen, zeinen mir. Ober chassidim zeinen mir.

chanie said...

TRS- just because they do something wrong, does that mean we should do the same?!?!

Modeh B'Miktsas said...

The snag version is vos mir zeinin zeinin mir ober dickheads zeinin mir. Let them act according to their nature.

Modeh B'Miktsas said...

Of course, to be fair they have more of a right to be angry than you. They "only" make fun of one of your Rebbe's while you make fun of many of their's. I mean come on "Chazon Pish???" Grow up.

Crawling Axe said...

Re snag version: well, if they say so. Self-criticism is always nice.

They "only" make fun of one of your Rebbe's while you make fun of many of their's. I mean come on "Chazon Pish???" Grow up.

Voice in the void? Whom are you talking to?

Modeh B'Miktsas said...

SOme world you live in where everyone is either lubavitch or snag. I'm only semi-snag -- I learn mch more nigleh then chasidus, and I have a rav not a Rebbe but I don't wear a hat and I don't bash Jews wholesale. My lashon hara is one-off only.

I've heard several lubavitchers refer to him this way. Something to do with a tshuva you don't pasken like. If you don't call him that, then kol hakavod.

The Real Shliach said...

Chanie: My point was that-whatever, it's not like you'll listen anyway.

Modeh: You kidding me? The way they treat the other six Rebbeim is even worse. At least with our Rebbe they show their true colors, but their praise for the other six? It's sickening.

And yeah, why don't you come over to the light side of the force?

Crawling Axe said...

MBM, I commented before that one can also be a Sephardi or Yekke. Otherwise, you’re right, no excuse.

Much more nigleh than chassidus? Do you expand your lungs while you take a breath and compress them while exhaling?

fakewood inc. said...

modeh are you familiar with the tshuva? the whole problem with the snags lie in that tshuva,

chanie said...

The Chazon Ish was on a higher level than any of us, a talmid chacham, and according to many, a gadol hador. You have no right to make fun of him in any way, shape, or form.

Fine. I offered, and if you don't want to explain your opinion, then don't. Just don't blame it on me.

fakewood inc. said...

yes big gedolim.

The Real Shliach said...

Yup, the chazon pish was worshiped by snags. Whoop de do.

Thanks Chanie, but you might be forgetting something...this is my blog, no?

chanie said...

But he still knew more Torah than you, and for that he deserves your respect.

Yep.

The Real Shliach said...

The Rebbe Rashab referred to the Vilna Gaon as "him who was stuffed with Torah by satan".

Modeh B'Miktsas said...

Fakewood, I think we are talking about a different tshuva. As far as I know the Chazon Ish tshuva that gave rise to the nickname in question had to do with putting tissues in the toilet before you use it on shabbos because of some chsash or other that I didn't understand. I think the childish nickname is ridiculous. We MO's call that kind of thing "fundamentalism" but you can't do that 'cuz you're a bunch of fundies too.

The Rebbe Rashab referred to the Vilna Gaon as "him who was stuffed with Torah by satan".
Therein lies the problem even sane litvaks have with chabad. You take all the kavod hatorah due every gadol from the acharonim on down and invest it in your rebbeim leaving none for anybody else.

chanie said...

TRS- The Rashab was the Rashab. Pitzy little TRS doesn't equate to the Rashab, the Chazon Ish, or the Gra.

chanie said...

Er, MBM...I happen to be Chabad, too...and I think TRS is waaay outta line. Oh...and see a-farbrengen.blogspot.com, and ask the author there if he agrees with us, or with TRS. Said author called this a "sick blog".

The Real Shliach said...

Modeh: Either you're with us or against us.
Stam: I wouldn't be so fundie but there are certain elements currently frequenting this blog... Bichlal, anyone who knows me in real life knows that I'm totally not a fundie.

Chanie: A shocker there.

Plus, no way are you Chabad. Chabad are proud of being Chabad. You're an apologetic.
When did said author call this a sick blog? I'm fascinated!

Crawling Axe said...

Moses Mendelssohn probably knew more Torah than me. For sure Gemara.

Modeh B'Miktsas said...

Nice attitude TRS. Wonderful way to win friends and influence people.

Chanie, you're atypical.

TRS- The Rashab was the Rashab. Pitzy little TRS doesn't equate to the Rashab, the Chazon Ish, or the Gra.
Well said.

CA: about Mendelssohn, I don't know what you learn about him but in Snag school they teach us that he was the "father of reform" said "yehudi babayis v'ish bachutz" took out the second yekum purkan, was the son of satan etc etc ad nauseum. All this is a load of -- to borrow le7's wonderful phrase -- bovine fecal matter. He was a yekkeshe yid who translated the chumash into german, remained shomer mitzvos all his life and if he knew about his grandchildren intermarrying he probably would have torn kria. In fact he didn't even do the Mendelssohn Bible. He wasn't learned enough, so he hired someone else. Pick a real maskil for your straw man.

Crawling Axe said...

Whatever.

My point is: the Rebbe clearly said that someone’s lomdus does not yet make him anything.

Rebbe Rashab clearly says in Kuntres Eitz HaChayim that Torah can be turned from life into reddish.

What’s the point of this discussion?

Modeh B'Miktsas said...

whatever
Exactly. I love long and irrelevant rants don't you?

My point is ...
And the shulchan aruch says you have to respect chochmas hatorah and anyone who has it whether it makes them anything or not.

Rebbe Rashab clearly says ...
What's 'reddish'? Am I missing something?

What's the point of this discussion?
To kill time. What else is the point of blogging?in which case we should both stop and go do something useful.
Of course you can also say "l'kadesh shem shamayim. What else is the point of life?"in which case we can't stop. Your choice.

fakewood inc. said...

modeh-
i heard a certain lubavitcher rosh yeshiva farbrenging in lakewood lchvod Chof daled teves. the whole time he was here (like 5 hours)he was going on about how maise hu haikar. the point isnt how long you sit and learn and how much you know but rather what you do with it. we love snags because they are jews but we despise their way of avodah since the time of the baal shemtov (read here not only lubavitch). so im still unsure what your taina is modeh>

fakewood inc. said...

the rosh yeshiva was yisroel friedman from ohalei torah.

Modeh B'Miktsas said...

My tainah is that even if ma'aseh is ikar es pas nisht for ehrliche yidden which you obviously are since you spend so much time on the ma'aseh to make fun of gedolei yisroel. I'm still not sure what you meant by the toilet paper tshuva being "the problem with snags."

Crawling Axe said...

MBM — I went to a lecture of a New Age rabbi tonight. His Torah was brilliant, and I respect and applaud him for it. His pseudo-science, psychology, and pretty much everything outside of quotes from Talmud and Kabbala was drek.

As Russians say, learn how to separate flies from chollent.

Modeh B'Miktsas said...

Exactly. So you can respect gedolei torah as the shulchan aruch demands and leave the drek. All I am saying is that the Chazon Ish deserves at least as much respect as the new age rabbi. I can understand Lubavitchers having problems with Shach because he pretty much declared war on more than one group of yidden but why the chazon ish?

fakewood inc. said...

i bet you no lubavitcher would worry about wether thei pish makes noise on shabbos. who even thought up that shaila. sound like something i got smacked for saying in yeshiva.

The Real Shliach said...

Modeh: Since when did you become such a big defender of snags?

Anonymous said...

what an aggressive conversation. when does this turn into west side story? why does anyone care what the other dynasty says about their leaders, study Whatever way your leader reccomends and stave off. of course another leader might disagree, even strongly, whith yours, their with a differant group! otherwise everyone would wear the same hat. Chabad likes Chabad because...They're Chabad! and vicea versua. Judging is useless and worrying about Heaven is as well (Ive never been, have you?) elevate the world and you'll get your surprise later. everything else is a pissing contest.

Crawling Axe said...

I agree except for the part that Chabad likes Chabad because it’s Chabad. I think it’s the other way around — Chabad is Chabad because it likes Chabad, and it likes partially because it understands.

Anonymous said...

ok, That is definatly a better rewording. I just felt that they were purposly ignoring what the post was about in an effort to see who could pee the farthest. I dont have anything against being territorial towards ones own Chasidic group, but mass generalzations of a large group of people to voice resentment against specific persons or events is just being contrary.

chanie said...

TRS- I am Chabad, and proud of it. I'm apologetic of the attitudes such as yours, which accomplish exactly the opposite of what the Rebbe stood for.

Modeh- I'm not that atypical. There are some bad apples in every group, but that doesn't mean the whole group is like that.

fakewood inc. said...

chanie-
How is TRS attitude opposit from what the rebbbe wanted. be specific.

Modeh B'Miktsas said...

TRS: Only a defender of deceased gedolom. Living snaggishe rebbes have their own minions.
fake: I see. It's because chabad has a more MO (read sane and reasonable) attitude towards halacha

The Real Shliach said...

Anon: the problem is that certain people take this conversation very seriously (chanie) and certain people take it very not seriously (TRS). I'm not looking to find eternal truth on the web, nor am I trying to change anyone's opinions. I'm just trying to bring Jews closer to their father in heaven (in the pnim) and have a little fun (in the nosei kailim).
And yes, of course I'm being contrary. Chanie doesn't get that, but I am.
Chanie: really? How so?
And yes, you are atypical. How many self-hating lubavitchers do you know? Actually, that's a bit harsh. You're just a modern Lubavitcher-you pick and choose.

Modeh: ahh. And if I don't think they're gedolim?

That's so not true about Halacha. We're frummer than any other group out there. Seriously. What is a chassid? Lifnim mishuras hadin! That's what we are.

Modeh B'Miktsas said...

and if I don't think they're gedolim
That's why I'm defending them.

Wait a minute. Fake said it was because snags care about whether their piss makes noise on shabbos and lubavs don't. As far as I can tell that is taking a more reasonable and less idiotic chumrah attitude towards halacha.

The Real Shliach said...

Can't argue with that.

Who said fake has it right? And even if he does, since when was Halacha based on what made sense or what is reasonable?

Modeh B'Miktsas said...

Since there was eidus chukim umishpatim 2/3 of halacha has had something to do with reason and one third had everything to do with it.

fakewood inc. said...

i didnt say we arent machmir i said we dont sit and count brownie point towards G"E while we pish on shabbos.

The Real Shliach said...

Modeh: in chassidus it explains that in fact each and every Halacha has aspects of all three.

Fake: exactly. Because we don't give a hoot about gan Eden. Heck, if snags knew what was it was (go learn the maamar kol yisrael in melukat) even they wouldn't give a hoot. It's just a waiting room. The real prize, in the eyes of a snag, is yemos hamashiach. Remember, we pasken like the ramban, not the rambam.
Regardless, as lubavitchers that's not what we're trying to do. We're trying to make a dirah b'tachtonim, not gain pleasure for ourselves.

Modeh B'Miktsas said...

Oh. So you do like the Gra after all.

Re not caring about gan eden: You do however care about issur v'hetter which is what the Chazon Ish was addressing in that tshuva.

As for dirah b'tachtonim see the ksavim of the moderne rebbe :) (halakhic man is about the definition of the perfect Jew. MOs think it's them but as far as I can tell what he really meant was a synthesis of chabad and Brisk. No wonder both chabad and Brisk shun him.)

The Real Shliach said...

The Gra has been rehabilited in chabad circles. My opinion? ...

Of course I care about issur and hetter. Why else would I be learning taaruvos? But in general, honestly, I have to plead ignorance when it comes to the man.

Who is this moderne rebbe you reference? Oh, soloveitchik? We shun him?

Modeh B'Miktsas said...

Re the Gra: WOnderful news since in litvishe circles he is more famous for espousing views on gan eden identical to this thread than he is for the cherem against chasidim.

I don't know what "ignorance when it comes to the man" has to do with anything. A tshuva refers to issur veheter and an eitza or 'igres' (litvaks don't know grammar either) refers to brownie points in gan eden.

rav Soloveichik
*growls and reaches for large blunt instrument* After years in snag school "jb" has become a pet peeve of mine. You don't shun him? my bad thought you did. Brisk does big time though. They really wish they could sweep him under the carpet like the chofetz chaim's granddaughter.

Crawling Axe said...

MBM, I personally don’t shun him, but I just don’t understand him. Nuh, so I am gornisht and am aretz, but it doesn’t change the fact that it’s puzzling to me.

Why wasn’t he a Lubavitcher? In Chabad we have everything that he was ever looking for, multiplied, magnified, organized, beautified. Chabad is the real Modern Orthodoxy. What he created was some toy version of it.

And he doesn’t have an excuse of not being exposed to Chabad Chassidus or lacking in intellect. He had both. So, I don’t get it.

The same regarding R’ Norman Lamm.

I think my answer is — however it pains me — chochmas chitzoinius. The moment you give in to the beauty of it and study it for its sake, it destroys you. Perhaps not all of it, but what was taught in Berlin in humanities and social sciences departments. (That stuff doesn’t just destroy frum mind, but also goyishe mind.)

The Real Shliach said...

Modeh: of course, the gra was also a big proponent of tzitzum k'pshuto.

I meant that I really don't know anything about him or his involvement with lubavitch.

What about the chofetz chaim's daughter? Who was she?

CA: why does that pain you?

Modeh B'Miktsas said...

CA: I was only able to understand him because I wrote down a list of confusing stuff and took it to a very well read philosopher. RJB does ayen hegel kierkegaard and the rest the way lhavdil R' akiva Eiger does ayen tshuvas harashba. As for the "toy version" there is your problem with his modern orthodoxy and his with the chabad version. He felt that chochmas chitzoniyos were not the problem the Rebbe felt them to be. Then again the Rebbe was an engineer with all the antipathy the group feels to philosophers, which R' Soloveichik was.

TRS: The chofetz chaim had a son who went off the derech and became a commie. (Nobody goes off the derech to become a libertarian score 1 for the good guys) His daughter was not Jewish. When Mendelssohn's nonJewish grandson is brought up as evidence of his evil, the letzonei hador (read me and a couple other enlightened chevra) like to say "Perfect he can do a shidduch with the chofetz chaim's granddaughter."

chanie said...

TRS and fakewood- because the Rebbe showed respect for all Yidden, and stood for halacha- which, by the way, requires you to respect talmidei chachamim- and you are showing utter disrespect for that. Additionally, you've done enough damage to give people a negative impression of Chabad, all done in the name of a "shliach"....

Crawling Axe said...

MBM: I didn’t mean that I didn’t understand his writings. I meant that I don’t understand why RS is not a Lubavitcher and why he had to play around with his toys. In the introduction to the Halachic Man, he writes something to the extent of him searching for a while about the definition and essence of who a human being is.

I don’t understand how he could be searching for it, having learned Chabad Chassidus.

He would be right to assume that Chabad doesn’t have enough Hegel. One person asked me why Chabad doesn’t come out in a unified front against narishkeit. I answered: perhaps because it’s too busy bringing Mashiach. (Alternative moshul: one girl asked my rabbi why frum Yidden don’t have pets. He answered: “Because we have children.”)

Fur vos dorfstu Heigel? Eibeshter is not enough?

I don’t think the Rebbe was opposed to TuMa because he was an engineer. He made it very clear why he was opposed in a letter. I think he became an engineer as opposed to a chainik-haker (i.e., a student of humanities) for the same reason.

Crawling Axe said...

I think the need is indeed here for me to quote the man who ate his sandwich with knife and fork.

Senatores boni viri. Senatus mala bestia.
— Julius Caesar

[Senators are nice people. The Senate is an evil beast.]

The Rebbe respected — nay, loved — all Yidden. Yet he writes in a letter that Reform, Conservative and MO movements are heretical. Very clearly. Don’t fail to separate people from views and movements.

Just today, I heard a story from Tzvi Freeman about Rogachover writing a letter to a Litvishe friend of his, in which he explains a concept in nigleh, after which he writes: “You don’t understand this idea, because you are, r"l, a misnaged.” Just like that, with r"l.

Modeh B'Miktsas said...

I love you devinition of a "student of humanities. I wish I had it when I was taking two humanities cores last semester.

I don't think you realize it and this is very strange for someone who claims to be chasidic but not a chasid that it is possible to learn tanya and still think there is more to the essence of a human being. Unless you can accept that there is no point in continuing.

As for fur vus darfst du Hegel I can think of several uses if anyone ever inflicts a copy on me:
1-Legal weapon of self defense (it doesn't cost 3 grand to get a book permit in NYC ... yet)
2- Leave it on my desk to show how erudite I am (if they can see it under the huge pile of junk)
3- Chuck it through somebody's window.
4-Go to Gitmo and torture terrorists.
Next question?

Crawling Axe said...

He also read Likkutei Torah, I believe.

Crawling Axe said...

Or Torah Ohr.

Wanted to give a shiur on it, but his students, unsurprisingly, said that they are bored. “Too much G-d,” one of them exclaimed. “Not enough wissssenshaft!”

Modeh B'Miktsas said...

This one goes on your comment that went up while I was writing the above:

1- Neither forks nor sandwiches were known in Rome in Caesar's day. (sounds profound don't it)
2- whoopdedoo I'm a heretic. You smell bad too. Now that we have degenerated into name-calling and obviated the need for intelligence we can have a lot more fun.
3- Snags tell that one too. The litvish friend replied "If I did not know you were a chosid lo aleinu it would not occur to me that you would think this was a kashe in the first place." So you see we both have ample precedent. You can ask Hashem to save you from me and I can daven for you to have a refua shleima.

Modeh B'Miktsas said...

This one goes on your comment that went up while I was writing the above:

1- Neither forks nor sandwiches were known in Rome in Caesar's day. (sounds profound don't it)
2- whoopdedoo I'm a heretic. You smell bad too. Now that we have degenerated into name-calling and obviated the need for intelligence we can have a lot more fun.
3- Snags tell that one too. The litvish friend replied "If I did not know you were a chosid lo aleinu it would not occur to me that you would think this was a kashe in the first place." So you see we both have ample precedent. You can ask Hashem to save you from me and I can daven for you to have a refua shleima.

Crawling Axe said...

MBM — that was a reply to Chanie, not to you.

What do you mean they didn’t have sandwiches in Rome?

Crawling Axe said...

Going back to the original question, you can describe a car as a mobile CD-player. Or as a mobile heater. Or as a mobile navigator. You can get really philosophical and say that a car is a hybrid between an engine and a jukebox.

But at the end of the day, it’s an automobile whose function is to get from point A to point B. All the other devices were installed to make the journey more tolerable/possible/pleasurable. So, is there anything to know about the car after you’ve read the car manual and your Google Maps printout (or GPS instructions). Yes, but nothing essential.

Crawling Axe said...

Look, I also don’t understand the deal with TuMa. I’ve read the book. Talk about your arrows and targets.

Modeh B'Miktsas said...

Huh? Elaborate please.

Crawling Axe said...

If you guys think Chassidim are bad, look at, lehavdil, composers:

«Gould also recorded works by many other prominent piano composers, though he was outspoken in his criticism of some of them, apparently not caring for Frédéric Chopin, for example. In a radio interview, when asked if he didn't find himself wanting to play Chopin, he replied: "No, I don't. I play it in a weak moment — maybe once a year or twice a year for myself. But it doesn't convince me."

Although Gould recorded all of Mozart's sonatas and admitted enjoying the "actual playing" of them[20], he was a harsh critic of Mozart's music to the extent of arguing (perhaps a little puckishly) that Mozart died too late rather than too early.»

Modeh B'Miktsas said...

Well composers are students of the humanities ie chainik hockers so what do you expect. I meant elaborate on "TuMa" is it an abbreviation or a word? If the former what does it mean if the latter what are you calling tamei?

Crawling Axe said...

What? Music is not a humanity.

Crawling Axe said...

Music is not a science, it’s art.

Crawling Axe said...

Humanity is neither.

Talking of personal insults, my rabbi says, a cross between a horse and a donkey does not give offspring. The same way a cross between 19th-century philosophy and…

Crawling Axe said...

Torah u’Madda.

Crawling Axe said...

Drawing targets around arrows — have you read Rabbi Lamm’s book?

Modeh B'Miktsas said...

Working backwards, no I haven't read Dr. Lamm's book.

Nice pun. If I went there I would feel honor bound to say something nasty.

Talking of personal insults I can do a lot better than that, don't try me. :) And music can be called a humanity if you use the term loosely (any university department that swallows grant money and produces things of aesthetic value only)