Thursday, June 25, 2009

Hurting

How long?! How long?! Ad mosai, till when?!
How long?! How long?! Ad mosai, till when?!
When all the hearts are broken
How can You shatter a dream?
When all the world is trembling
How can You shake anything?
When all the songs have ended
Only Your song will sing better
You're the only who can put a broken heart back together

Courtesy of 8th Day/Jewish Music Lyrics

Yup. Gimmel Tammuz. 15 years. Everyone on the blogosphere is writing about it tonight. But what is there to say? The wound is still raw. Even worse, for many people, it's starting to close. What do you say at a time like this? I don't know. I wish I did.

Nu G-d, we're waiting.

57 comments:

C said...

blogger needs a like button

Nemo said...

You move on and heed the words of Shmuley Boteach. http://www.shmuley.com/articles/details/the_seven_challenges_of_chabads_future/

Modeh B'Miktsas said...

You go and give a pahn. I'm a young guy so I boruch Hashem can't speak about loss from experience, but I think the best thing is to accept that his status moved from manhig to melitz yosher.

e said...

modeh: heavy kefirah you're saying.

nemo: you're probably are also saying heavy kefirah, but I haven't bothered to check out the link.

Nemo said...

The link isn't kefirah unless taken together with my exhortation to move on.

e said...

BTW, it's nice to have you back on TRS.

C said...

e-I jumped to conclusions when I saw that it was a Boteach link, but I did check it out and he has some valid arguments.

The Real Shliach said...

C: They do. I just never bothered installing it.

Nemo: Haven't we argued this before?

Modeh: Sorry honey, not happening in Lubavitch.

e: Yes, it is nice to have him back.

Modeh B'Miktsas said...

Do NOT try to argue what's kfira with me.

The Real Shliach said...

You talking to me?

Nemo said...

What makes me back? What happens if I take another commenting hiatus?

BTW, I do stop by pretty often, even if I don't always comment.

The Real Shliach said...

I love it when you try to say something nice...

e said...

Modeh: I meant kefirah in the tenets of Lubavitch faith, not in the tenets of mainstream judaism.

e said...

I liked number five: Teach Chabad Rabbis and Shluchim that public oratory is not just a regurgitation of a Sicha.

le7 said...

Wound closing. Ouch.

Crawling Axe said...

I meant kefirah in the tenets of Lubavitch faith, not in the tenets of mainstream judaism.

Is “mainstream judaism” going to bring Mashiach? Nope.

Modeh B'Miktsas said...

TRS: to e
e: Telling me that I am a kofer to a movement of which I am not a part is kind of like telling me that I am a usurer if I lend money on 0% interest.
CA:Yes. Hayom rak im b'koli tishma'u

Nemo said...

And here I was educated to believe the whole world is Lubavitch.

The Real Shliach said...

Modeh: Ahh.

Nemo: They are. They just don't know it yet.

Modeh B'Miktsas said...

That's what he said (he being Innocent III)

Altie said...

well said.

sorry im late.

my gimel tamuz was confusing, to say the least. i wait for the day when itll all become clear, but somehow i doubt that day is in my near future.

The Real Shliach said...

אני מאמין באמונה שלימה בביאת המשיח בכל יום שיבוא ואף אל פי שיתממא אם כל זה אחכה לו

Altie said...

easy to say...

Crawling Axe said...

TRS: show off.

The Real Shliach said...

Altie: hey, I have to tell this to myself too.

CA: hey! It was a lot of work typing that out on an iPod.

Altie said...

ya but thats like saying, oh comon, its really not that bad at all...dont worry, i also think its really bad, but im trying to convince both of us...ha. nice try

The Real Shliach said...

Well, e for effort then.

Altie said...

ya u do try. sometimes u try too hard...

The Real Shliach said...

My teacher always told me there's no such thing as trying too hard. "Give it 110%," he'd say, "leave it all out on the field!"

Altie said...

ok that explains your code of conduct. i like the attitude

e said...

yeah, post-Gimmel Tammuz life sucks. Plain and simple.

Here's what bothered me, back in the day: Usually when things go wrong, you try to make yourself get over it. But if you "get over" Gimmel tammuz, then you ersht need to start crying...


@trs #hebrew typing: nice!

The Real Shliach said...

Altie: I try.

e: good point.

I try.

Altie said...

e, wuts wrong with crying?

e said...

It's just not fun. and perhaps it's not psychologically healthy in the long run.

e said...

It's just not fun. and perhaps it's not psychologically healthy in the long run.

Altie said...

fun, no. healthy? ya. its a relief. an outlet.

e said...

crying is a healthy way to deal with grief. but constant grief isn't healthy.

Altie said...

so why should it be a constant thing? u cry, u feel better, u move on.

The Real Shliach said...

e has left a new comment on your post "Hurting":

yeah, post-Gimmel Tammuz life sucks. Plain and simple.

Here's what bothered me, back in the day: Usually when things go wrong, you try to make yourself get over it. But if you "get over" Gimmel tammuz, then you ersht need to start crying...


@trs #hebrew typing: nice!



Posted by e to The Real Shliach at July 1, 2009 1:33 PM

Altie said...

if that was supposed to be an answer, i dont get it. thanks anyway

The Real Shliach said...

Altie: "so why should it be a constant thing? u cry, u feel better, u move on."

e: "Here's what bothered me, back in the day: Usually when things go wrong, you try to make yourself get over it. But if you "get over" Gimmel tammuz, then you ersht need to start crying..."

TRS: get it?

Altie said...

so wut is he saying? that gimel tamuz is not something u can just 'get over'?

The Real Shliach said...

That would appear to be the case.

Altie said...

cry forever or dont cry at all? neither works very well.

either way, let e explain.

e said...

trs: thanks for stepping in for me.

In Lubavitch there's this pressure to never stop mourning. Look at the earlier comments. If you move on, you're a kofer.

Altie said...

im guessing that was meant in a sarcastic tone of voice.

i'll say like this: there is no 'moving on'. think abt it. where r we supposed to move to? for years and years, all we've been hearing is, we are dor hashvii, 7th generation, we need to polish our buttons, the buttons are already polished, all we are waiting for is moshiach, we've done all we can, etc etc etc. i dont know why moshiach isnt here. YOU dont know why moshiach isnt here. none of us know. there are no answers. we are still waiting, just like we've been waiting for 5769 years.

but if u wait and wait and wait, and he still doesnt come, does that mean its ok to move on? i once heard someone say, the 7th generation is over, now we are in the 8th generation, and we should pick a new rebbe. this guy was not lubavitch, i dont think a lubav would say something like that.

but no, it is not up to us to say that the 7th generation is over. maybe its just a looooooong generation. either way, i believe the rebbe is still here, spiritually, in whatever way, but no, he never really left.

so in that case, how can WE leave? how can we move on? it is not possible.

whatever gimel tamuz meant to u, however u were effected by it, u deal with it, u learn to cope with the here and now. but no, u cant move on, cuz moving on would mean moshiavch is here, and i dont see him, and he doesnt seem to be here.

are u a kofer if u 'move on'? i wouldnt go so far as to say that. i would say, that if u feel the NEED to move on, its cuz u cant deal with the reality. cuz realistically, where would u move on to? there is no where to go right now.

le7 said...

e. is such an undercover chossid.

C said...

Altie-There comes a point where one just admits defeat. When one realizes that he may never truly be able to put all the hergashim, feelings, and ideas into coherent sentences. However, this does not mean that we don't know wht our job is. It's simple-we must make this world a better place by being the best we can be. We need to make this world a place the Rebbe will be proud of, and a home in which HAshem will be comfortable.

Beyond that, there are thoughts, reasons, opinions... but do they really matter?

Crawling Axe said...

e, does it bother you that we haven’t gotten over the Beis HaMikdosh? All the mourning, all the tears.

Isn’t that the whole point of the Rebbe’s campaing — not to get over? One can get over a loss (chvs"sh) of a loved one, and that’s a normal and a healthy thing to do. But to get over the fact that we are in golus — still in golus (which is what the depressing aspect of gimmel tamuz signifies to me) — is not too healthy for a Jew but rather is indicative or doubled darkness.

No?

Crawling Axe said...

CA:Yes. Hayom rak im b'koli tishma'u

1) If one person did real teshuva...
2) So, nu?
3) Soldiers vs. officers.

Altie said...

c- its not simple, but put it that way, it seems so.

e said...

altie: you're right. That's what a chassid needs to feel. That's why being a chassid is so exhausting.

C: you're talking about what we need to do, but you're not addressing the whole feelings issue.

CA: there is a difference between the loss of the beis hamikdash and 3 tammuz and there's also no difference. vd"l.

e said...

CA: If a guy says, "I have no ahavah and yirah," they tell him, "nu. so try to develop some."

If a guy says, "The Rebbe means nothing to me," people will go beserk.

Crawling Axe said...

When a student tells me, “I am having trouble with the class, because I don’t understand this or that”, I tell him: “Let me help you”. But if a student tells me: “I am having trouble with the class, because I don’t care about action potentials and don’t even want to care”, then there is nothing I can do. And it is annoying.

Saying “I know it doesn’t make sense, but I believe in it” to me is as annoying as saying “I just don’t believe in it”. Both statements are brainless.

e said...

v'hanimshal....

Altie said...

CA- its annoying because u cant help them, because they dont want to help themselves, and u feel powerless.

e- is that why u stopped trying?

e said...

among other reasons.