First off, a big Mazel Tov to Reuven and Tziporah Kasten, whose wedding I attended tonight in Oholei Torah wedding hall in Crown Heights, New York. I can just see it now, the happy couple goes online for the first time since their wedding, and what's the first thing they check after facebook? They Google their new name of course! And my site comes up! And I get some hits! Yeah!
This evening, as I was being transported into Crown Heights, I remembered something that Rabbi Schapiro said by last night's Farbrengen. He mentioned that Lubavitch is always in the spotlight in the Jewish world. We might be a tiny percentage of the world Jewish population, but everyone has an opinion on us. We're almost exactly like the Jewish people as a whole; a tiny percentage of the world's population, but everyone pays attention to our slightest move, and most of them hate our guts. So too with Lubavitch. You think anyone cares about Satmar's fights, or Bobov's fights, or any of the myriad fights in the Litvish world or Sephardi world et all...but when it comes to Lubavitch and Moshiach? Suddenly everyone has an opinion, everyone cares deeply, everyone hates our guts, the works.
Is this typical Mashpia group-ego building? I don't think so, because the dear Rabbi is often the first to curse out Lubavitchers when he thinks they're in the wrong. For example, a Bochur yesterday asked him to explain the Rambam, 11th Perek of Milchemes Beis Dovid, re: Moshiach and death. "So," Rabbi Schapiro said, "the Rambam says that a person can be assumed to be Moshiach, but if he doesn't finish the job, then he's not Moshiach. What's so difficult about that? Does this bother you theologically?" Of course it bothered this bochur theologically, but he insisted that it didn't. Anyway, that's not the point. The point is that this is the only post of the week that I typed on a normal keyboard, and it's the shortest!
Thursday, December 11, 2008
Easy hit generator
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109 comments:
Yeah, but isnt there a Rashi or something that says that Moshiach can come from the dead? I mean Shivim panim l'torah...this bochur should have had some other opinion up his sleeve to counteract what the Rabbi said.
Where is this Rashi?
And this Rambam is the reason many Lubavitchers say that the Rebbe is alive B'guf Gashmu, because otherwise...
Listen, I'm not here to get involved in any Meshichist-anti debates, because A. there are much better places, B. anything that could be said has already beeen said, and C. they're generally pretty moronic anyway.
To counteract what the Rabbi said? What was wrong with what the Rabbi said? Is there a problem with the plain and obvious pshat in a Rambam?
I was happy with Ariel Sharon being the long-awaited Messiah, till he fell into a coma at least. But he is chay vekoyam and will return soon enough. Amen selah.
I was going for Ted Williams, until they cut his head off.
Well if you want to get really creative, you could interpret that when the Rambam said that one who is assumed to be Moshiach but doesnt complete the job isnt moshiach as a statement open to interpretation until moshiach comes. Moshiach isn't here yet so you could say the rebbe could still be Moshiach. so really this Rambam isn't a stira to the Rebbe's ability to be Moshiach. Im not sure if this will make any sense to you....'cuz it barely does to me.
So why do you believe it?
Believe what?
It says in Rambam that anyone reciting any portion of Torah (which presumably includes Tehillim) expecting to get healing for himself or others out of it is doing witchcraft. This is a poshut way of reading Rambam — do you have a problem with it?
Let’s read the whole Torah in the simplest way possible. Screw the context.
The problem that the world has a problem with Jews and why Jews have problems with Lubavitchers is that in both cases you have a group of people that is different from everyone else, is conscious of this difference and know that this difference means something and is there for a reason.
We (either Jews or Lubavitchers) don’t think our way is “just another derech” equal to other paths. And when people ask us, how we can be so sure of ourselves, we provide explanation and show that there is more to the world (and Torah) than meets the eye. And that makes everyone else mad (those who are not mad have joined us already).
When you don't like what someone says, it always sounds smarts to say, "Look at the context." But it ain't gonna help you here.
The Mishechist understanding of the Rambam does not become any more (or less) plausible when one takes into account the context.
Smart girl: I have no idea what you're talking about.
Crawling Axe: I don't mind if there's a stirah between the Rambam and the Rebbe, which there probably is, because the Rebbe held that the Friediker Rebbe was Moshiach. How did the Rebbe explain that? Ich vais nisht. I do mind when people twist the words of the Rambam to suit their own ends.
So, in your opinion we should stop saying tehillim for refuah?
There was no stirah between the Rebbe and Rambam, and the Rebbe himself explained why there was no stirah. At the time when the Rebbe was talking about the topic, it made sense that FR was potential Mashiach. Now it doesn’t.
I am not saying you should twist Rambam’s words. You should understand what he means. In order to understand in any case what Rambam means when he negates something, you should look at the particular shita in Yiddishkeit that he is negating. Rambam doesn’t say things out of blue — he always talks about specific practice or shitta that is mentioned in Talmud (whether it’s about saying words of Torah for refuah or refuting someone’s role as Mashiach).
“If he is killed or doesn’t succeed to such extent...” — what the hell does this mean? If this was a line in Mishna, you could expect at least a daf of Gemara talking about why there is such strange wording (why not say “if he dies”?). And you say, look at poshut meaning?
Stop saying Tehillim for Refuah? What a ridiculous suggestion. When the Ramabm said that saying Tehillim expecting a miracle is wrong, he was not saying that praying, hoping, desiring, a miracle was wrong. Expecting one? That's a different matter.
When did it make sense, according to the Rambam, that the FR was Moshiach?
Ahem, TRS, look up the rambam in context.
And...? What do you want me to massage the text to mean?
I don’t feel like going into the whole pilpul at this point (it’s getting late anyway).
Regarding Rambam and some wonderful people’s “simple” reading of him, see this (for the full enjoyment, see the comments). Regarding the whole Mashiach issue, for intelligent treatment of the topic (beyond simple reading), see this blog (start from the bottom post).
I think (besides understanding of Rambam for the sake of Rambam), another question to ask is: why would an intelligent Lubavitcher (not some lunatic running around with a flag) believe that davka Lubavitcher Rebbe is Nosi HaDor and (potential) Mashiach. Where’s that coming from? Why not stop at just Rebbe? I think this is the first question that needs to be answered. Then, we can start looking at whether Rambam contradicts the conclusion of this question.
Most debates don’t address either of the two questions intelligently, in my opinion. The issue has been pushed into chitzoinius of chitzoinius.
The difference between men and womens brains I guess...
Listen, as I said above, I never meant to get into this whole debate, because I believe it to be a pointless one. No one was ever swayed by debate, and I don't intend to start now. My personal belief's notwithstanding, I try not to leave my brain at the door.
I don't think your scheme worked because when googling them I found this instead.
http://collive.com/show_news.rtx?id=1152
How was I supposed to know that the entire lubavitch wanted to lekk his daddy?
Collive hardly represents Lubavitch ... It's one of about 18 Lubavitch news sites.
Don't you think it's kinda pathetic that such a relatively small community has to have so many different sources of news?
I think it is hilarious actually. Since there is so much competition, they all scrape and post the most ridiculous stories.
Nemo: how many others post pictures of weddings?
Besides, it's very good for our collective self-esteem to have so many sites-the likelihood of getting on one is increased exponentially.
Is Fredricka related to you?
I assume that your comment was not meant for me, yes?
Was it me?
Of course it was for you, whose else's blog is this and last name i think is the same as Fredricka's?
But since you answered like that I guess no relation, although she too is writer.
The least you could do is post a link.
Post a link to what, honey?
I thought maybe she was your sister or somethin'.
Let's not make a Federal case out of this. Maybe I don't know your last name...
Yeah, I don't think you do. I googled the two together, and nothing came up.
There is such a writer for the Jewishjournal and whatnot.
http://www.jewishjournal.com/la_woman/article/counting_my_bruchas_20071019/
Thank you Elisheva.
He just wants to pretend I am not his sis.
Sorry, no relation of mine.
Though impressively enough, she does spell the name correctly.
All I said was she existed. Please don't thank me. My ego is big enough.
Well, Mr.TRS over here, said he googled the two and nothing came up, so that made me think that Im the one nuts...and when you validated me it made me feel not nutty anymore.
I thought not everyone gets the exact same google search results anyways.
Really? Never knew that. Strange no?
Maybe I made that up.
:)
I feel like I'm going to get cracked down on for subversionary activities.
I was not colluding with Fredricka.
You know, I probably spelled the dear girl's name incorrectly when I googled it, which would explain my lack I results. Also, yes, in many cases Google does tailor the results to fit the customer.
first of all, i feel like i should have posted the comment i posted on "connecting blah blah blah" over here. i'm not reposting it, so go read it over there.
then.
trs - the phrase "massage the text" causes a combination of images from open heart surgery, printed words, and bochurim/girls arguing to pop into my head. this resulting combined image is very strange.
How does bochurim/girls arguing equal massage the text? Explain yourself señorita!
HOW DID YOU GET THE TINDE?
"Massage the text" sounds like a Conservative theologian describing what Orthodox rabbis do for a living.
Eli: should we make that two strawberry mikshakes?
i'm sure if you think about it hard enough, you'll be able to think of something... but then the tznius (t?) police might get mad at me.
and in case you haven't been paying attention, my proper title would be mme.
Excuse me Cheerio, it is still Srta. I gave the title after all.
No. One and a half. Deal?
Fine. And does anyone get what señorita is implying? My mind must simply be too pure.
Simply that when bochurim and girls argue, they both try to massage the text? (I'm assuming one side is more successfull than the other side which doesn't even understand the text in the first place?)
Somehow, I just don't get the impression that she meant that.
If your mind was a pure as you claim, you wouldn't even question my explanation.
Just because your explanation makes no sense that means I'm not pure as white snow?
My answer makes sense. Work on your critical reading skills.
I almost commented on the fact you must have not seen snow for quite sometime to use it to describe pure, then I realized you noted white snow.
Oh please, your answer is neither plausible nor prurient.
I feel like I'm in AP English all over again. Are we going to start having weekly vocabulary quizzes also?
Does this mean you admit your answer made no sense?
CH"V!!
Nu, explain yourself then. The burden of proof lies on the prosecution, and in this case, you're alleging Cheerio's writing what appears to be absolute nonsense.
I don't see what is so hard to understand. Go back and re-read. I think I'm making a positive assumption also.
Wait, I'll save you the trouble since I'm so caring.
" Elisheva said...
Simply that when bochurim and girls argue, they both try to massage the text? (I'm assuming one side is more successfull than the other side which doesn't even understand the text in the first place?)
December 17, 2008 1:12 PM
"
This is more moronic than usual.
The only thing moronic is your continued assertion of your argument's credibility. Massaging the text, according to you, has nothing to do with bochurim/girls; it could apply to any textual argument. Additionally, where is the lascivious interest Cheerio assumed would be obvious?
If you really want to steer the conversation that way... the word massage has many connotations maybe? Just a shot in the dark.
But I still hold that I am right.
Obviously "massage" is the operative word here, but how foes that fit in with "text", and what does that have to do with bochurim and girls going at it like cats and dogs?
Ever heard of fanfiction?
Nope. What is it? I'm too lazy to google.
Truthfully it doesn't make sense in retrospect.
But for your personal edification:
"Fan fiction (alternately referred to as fanfiction, fanfic, FF or fic) is a broadly-defined term for stories about characters or settings written by fans of the original work, rather than by the original creator. Works of fan fiction are rarely commissioned or authorized by the original work's owner, creator, or publisher; also, they are almost never professionally published. Fan fiction, therefore, is defined by being both related to its subject's canonical fictional universe while simultaneously existing outside that universe.[1] Most fan fiction writers assume that other fans are reading their work, so their readers have knowledge of the canon universe (created by a professional writer) in which their works are based." (Wikipedia.org 12/17/08)
I accept your gracious defeat.
Now, as for this fanfiction thingamajiggie, what are you saying now? What are you suggesting, hinting, implying, trying to get at, all other forms of communicating subtlely?
I didn't give in on my original point. Only my fanfiction comment. Goodness. I still think I am correct. (Since I am all the time anyways).
You have yet to explain why your explanation makes any sense, despite my brilliant rebuttal of it.
I refuse to answer to your rebuttal since your rebuttal did not make any sense.
At this point, all I can say is, Nashim daatam kaalos
Liberal Elisheva wants to say "You're disgusting."
Conservative TRS says, this is what you get in a chaveunistic and mysoginistic (did I just murder the spelling of that poor word?) like Judaism. Let me be the first to say, "Welcome."
I had it coming. Everything I say is nonsense.
Also it's misogynistic.
who cares what i was actually trying to say? the resulting conversation between the two of you, trying to determine my meaning, was far more entertaining.
I'm glad you found it funny, because after awhile I found it positively frustrating and I left it feeling incompetent. Which doesn't even make sense.
Cheerio: it's sick of you to not explain yourself.
Eli: yeah, I can see how you'd feel incompetent.
Do you keep salt in your pocket?
Huh?
Huh?
Huh?
She revealed that this salt of hers refers to the type that is poured on wounds.
trs' favorite kind...;p
Is that meant in a nice way?
how could you even ask such a question?
(just for clarity's sake - did you mean the comment or the ;p?)
The latter. I'm sorely misinformed on the conventions of emoticons.
a ;p is like a ;) - when added to a comment that might otherwise sting (like salt poured into a wound)it indicates that the preceding comment is intended as a harmless jest.
Gotcha.
yes, and used it on elisheva!
yes, and used it on elisheva!
Moi?
you. (why is it that everyone knows how to say me in french but not you?)
It's vous. Everyone does know (IE Apre vous mademoiselle).
Yeah, you should be embarrassed Miss Cheerio.
Or tu. Or toi.
We should French as well as shidduchim lessons on here.
I think Spanish lessons are much more useful. (Plus I actually know Spanish unlike French).
Okay. Shoot.
this is where i sigh, and say shamefacedly "but i didn't go to public school." or bais rivka, where apparently they have spanish and french.
so let's start the lessons. trs, you might be able to get that aid status after all. teaching languages, helping solve the shidduchim crisis - you're chabad's own mother teresa!
How dare you compare me to that witch!
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